Reddit keeps its strange DMCA fight over Google search results alive
Reddit keeps its strange DMCA fight over Google search results alive
Reddit 在针对 Google 搜索结果的离奇 DMCA 诉讼中继续推进
On Friday, a judge largely denied a motion to dismiss from a web scraper, SerpApi, which is accused of conspiring with Perplexity AI to illegally scrape copyrighted Reddit content from Google search results. 周五，一位法官驳回了网络抓取工具 SerpApi 的大部分驳回诉讼请求。SerpApi 被指控与 Perplexity AI 合谋，从 Google 搜索结果中非法抓取受版权保护的 Reddit 内容。
In his opinion, US District Judge Paul A. Engelmayer said that at this early stage, Reddit has plausibly pleaded that there was a conspiracy, with SerpApi providing a product to circumvent Google access controls and Perplexity AI paying for it. 美国地方法官保罗·A·恩格尔迈耶（Paul A. Engelmayer）在裁决意见书中表示，在诉讼初期，Reddit 已经合理地主张存在合谋行为，即 SerpApi 提供了绕过 Google 访问控制的产品，而 Perplexity AI 则为此付费。
Engelmayer’s decision came less than two weeks after another court dismissed a similar action raised by Google, finding that the company had not proven that rights holders, such as Reddit, had ever authorized the search engine to prevent the scraping of protected content. 恩格尔迈耶做出这一决定时，距离另一家法院驳回 Google 提起的类似诉讼还不到两周。当时法院认为，Google 未能证明 Reddit 等权利人曾授权该搜索引擎阻止对受保护内容的抓取。
Google told Ars that it planned to amend its complaint to keep its lawsuit alive, but SerpApi told Ars that Google and Reddit were both trying to “use the DMCA to wall off the open Internet by retroactively claiming control over content that they didn’t author and don’t own.” Google 向 Ars 表示，计划修改诉状以维持诉讼，但 SerpApi 则回应称，Google 和 Reddit 都在试图“利用 DMCA 建立围墙，通过追溯性地声称对非其创作且不拥有的内容拥有控制权，从而封锁开放的互联网。”
For both Google and Reddit, the mission is to first prove that SerpApi and Perplexity AI conspired to access snippets of works covered by the Copyright Act that were, second, protected by a technological measure effectively controlling access, and that, third, the defendants circumvented that technology. 对于 Google 和 Reddit 而言，其任务首先是证明 SerpApi 和 Perplexity AI 合谋访问了受《版权法》保护的作品片段；其次，这些作品受到有效控制访问的技术措施保护；第三，被告绕过了该技术。
Google failed on the first prong, giving SerpApi a rare win at such an early stage, but it may strengthen Google’s arguments that Engelmayer agreed with Reddit that it was plausible the company had authorized Google to use anti-circumvention technology to block malicious scraping. Google 在第一点上败诉，使 SerpApi 在诉讼初期获得了罕见的胜利。但恩格尔迈耶认同 Reddit 的观点，即该公司有理由授权 Google 使用反绕过技术来阻止恶意抓取，这可能会加强 Google 的论点。
And it’s likely upsetting to web scrapers like SerpApi that Engelmayer thinks Reddit can make that case, even though Google’s technology was invented more than a year after Google and Reddit struck their licensing deal. 尽管 Google 的技术是在 Google 与 Reddit 达成许可协议一年多后才发明的，但恩格尔迈耶认为 Reddit 的主张成立，这可能会让 SerpApi 等网络抓取商感到不安。
According to Engelmayer, it would be impractical to expect partners to update licensing deals every time a company rolls out new security methods. 恩格尔迈耶认为，如果要求合作伙伴在公司每次推出新安全方法时都更新许可协议，那是不切实际的。
Additionally, Engelmayer found that “the Google Decision is not to the contrary” of Reddit’s case because, unlike Google, Reddit went “beyond the bare allegation” that Google used to broadly claim that it generally “has licenses to display copyrighted content.” 此外，恩格尔迈耶发现，“Google 案的裁决并不与 Reddit 案相抵触”，因为与 Google 不同，Reddit 的主张“超出了单纯的指控”，而 Google 此前仅宽泛地声称其通常“拥有展示版权内容的许可”。
Instead, Reddit argued that its licensing agreement with Google directly prohibits certain uses of Reddit data that are now being accessed due to the circumvention methods employed by malicious web scrapers. 相反，Reddit 主张其与 Google 的许可协议直接禁止了某些 Reddit 数据的使用，而这些数据目前正因恶意抓取工具所采用的绕过方法而被访问。
Specifically, Reddit argued that when it licenses content to partners like Google, its partners agree to delete posts that Reddit flags when users remove content. 具体而言，Reddit 主张，当其向 Google 等合作伙伴授权内容时，合作伙伴同意在用户删除内容时，删除 Reddit 标记的帖子。
According to Reddit, “millions of posts” are deleted monthly, and unsanctioned efforts like SerpApi’s partnership with Perplexity AI make it impossible for Reddit to protect its promise to users to honor content removals. 据 Reddit 称，每月有“数百万条帖子”被删除，而 SerpApi 与 Perplexity AI 的合作等未经授权的行为，使得 Reddit 无法履行其向用户承诺的删除内容的义务。
And allowing deleted posts to fester in Perplexity AI’s answer engine allegedly harms Reddit’s reputation, as well as its profits, Reddit successfully argued. Reddit 成功论证了允许已删除的帖子在 Perplexity AI 的答案引擎中留存，损害了 Reddit 的声誉及其利润。
Reddit cheers; SerpApi prepares to fight
Reddit 欢呼；SerpApi 准备应战
If Reddit wins the fight, the popular online discussion forum could be in a better position to force all AI scrapers to enter into licensing agreements. 如果 Reddit 赢得这场诉讼，这个热门在线讨论论坛将更有能力迫使所有 AI 抓取商签署许可协议。
Reddit has asked the court for an injunction blocking SerpApi and Perplexity AI access to both Reddit and Google websites, another injunction stopping circumvention of Google SearchGuard, and a third stopping SerpApi and Reddit from using previously scraped data. Reddit 已请求法院发布禁令，阻止 SerpApi 和 Perplexity AI 访问 Reddit 和 Google 网站；发布第二项禁令，阻止绕过 Google SearchGuard；并发布第三项禁令，禁止 SerpApi 和 Reddit 使用此前抓取的数据。
A Reddit spokesperson celebrated the ruling against the motion to dismiss in a statement provided to Ars. Reddit 发言人在提供给 Ars 的声明中对驳回撤诉请求的裁决表示欢迎。
“Today’s ruling brings us one step closer to holding bad actors accountable,” Reddit’s spokesperson said. “Reddit supports responsible access to public content, but we oppose companies that bypass our protections, ignore our rules, and profit off our communities without permission. Redditors create some of the most valuable human conversations on the Internet. We intend to protect them.” “今天的裁决让我们离追究不良行为者的责任又近了一步，”Reddit 发言人表示。“Reddit 支持对公共内容进行负责任的访问，但我们反对那些绕过我们的保护措施、无视我们的规则并未经许可从我们的社区中获利的公司。Redditors（Reddit 用户）创造了互联网上一些最有价值的人类对话。我们打算保护他们。”
The fight is seemingly far from over, though, with Engelmayer noting that SerpApi and Perplexity AI may prove through discovery that Reddit never authorized Google to protect its content in search results. 不过，这场斗争似乎远未结束。恩格尔迈耶指出，SerpApi 和 Perplexity AI 可能通过证据开示程序证明，Reddit 从未授权 Google 在搜索结果中保护其内容。
SerpApi may also strengthen its defense if it can prove that all publicly accessible content in Google search results is not protected by the Copyright Act, a footnote in Engelmayer’s opinion suggested. 恩格尔迈耶意见书中的一个脚注暗示，如果 SerpApi 能证明 Google 搜索结果中所有可公开访问的内容均不受《版权法》保护，它也可能加强其辩护。
Last week, a DMCA expert with Public Knowledge, Meredith Rose, told Ars that Google and Reddit seemed to be “sort of grasping at whatever tool is available” in the face of the sudden, continuous rise of AI scraping over the past three years. 上周，Public Knowledge 的 DMCA 专家梅雷迪思·罗斯（Meredith Rose）告诉 Ars，面对过去三年 AI 抓取的突然且持续的增长，Google 和 Reddit 似乎在“试图抓住任何可用的工具”。
And Reddit in particular appeared weirdly positioned in its DMCA claim because “the judge in the Google case said, ‘Well, in order to have standing to bring a lawsuit under the DMCA, you can be the copyright owner or the exclusive licensee or the person who is deploying and manufacturing the technological protection measure at issue,’” Rose told Ars. And confusingly, “Reddit is none of those things.” 罗斯告诉 Ars，Reddit 在其 DMCA 主张中的立场显得非常奇怪，因为“Google 案的法官曾说，‘要具备根据 DMCA 提起诉讼的资格，你必须是版权所有者、独家被许可人，或者是部署和制造相关技术保护措施的人。’”而令人困惑的是，“Reddit 哪一个都不是。”
But Rose did acknowledge that DMCA rulings seemed to be more about “vibes,” suggesting that it may be hard to predict a winner or loser in this fight just yet. 但罗斯确实承认，DMCA 的裁决似乎更多是基于“氛围（vibes）”，这表明目前很难预测这场斗争的胜负。
This week wasn’t a total loss for SerpApi and Perplexity AI, which did manage to get Reddit’s unjust enrichment and unfair competition claims tossed, since they were both preempted by the Copyright Act. 本周对 SerpApi 和 Perplexity AI 来说并非全盘皆输，他们成功驳回了 Reddit 关于不当得利和不正当竞争的诉讼请求，因为这两项请求都被《版权法》所预占。
Asked for comment, Jeff Homrig, a lawyer for SerpApi, told Ars that “we remain confident in our position. The court has decided to hear the facts; the facts are on our side. SerpApi accesses public search results, not Reddit’s platform, and public information does not become protected because a platform wants to charge for it. We look forward to making that case.” 在被问及评论时，SerpApi 的律师杰夫·霍姆里格（Jeff Homrig）告诉 Ars：“我们对自己的立场充满信心。法院已决定听取事实，而事实站在我们这一边。SerpApi 访问的是公共搜索结果，而非 Reddit 的平台。公共信息不会因为平台想要收费就变得受保护。我们期待在法庭上阐明这一点。”
Perplexity AI did not immediately respond to Ars’ request for comment. Perplexity AI 没有立即回应 Ars 的置评请求。