‘Everyone Is Doing It’: The Truth About AI in Hollywood
‘Everyone Is Doing It’: The Truth About AI in Hollywood
“每个人都在用”：好莱坞人工智能背后的真相
If you want a clear understanding of how AI is affecting Hollywood … good luck. Some of the industry loathes the technology, with screenwriters, directors, and actors alike vowing never to use AI in their work—or collaborate with those who do. Others are much more open to the potential for AI to act as everything from creative partner to cost-cutting engine. And a rare few, Ben Affleck included, are already making millions by capitalizing on AI’s nascent potential to (they argue) streamline and improve the filmmaking process. 如果你想清楚了解人工智能（AI）是如何影响好莱坞的……祝你好运。业内有些人对这项技术深恶痛绝，编剧、导演和演员们纷纷发誓绝不在工作中使用AI，也不与使用AI的人合作。另一些人则对AI的潜力持开放态度，认为它可以扮演从创意伙伴到削减成本引擎等各种角色。还有极少数人，包括本·阿弗莱克（Ben Affleck），已经通过利用AI的萌芽潜力来（他们认为）简化和改进电影制作流程，赚取了数百万美元。
At WIRED, we’re constantly doing our best to document AI’s transformational effects on the entertainment business, for better and for worse. (If you haven’t read Ruth Fowler’s recent essay for us, on going from a screenwriter to an underemployed LLM trainer, I highly recommend it.) But in an effort to get the most nuanced possible view, I wanted to talk to someone who knows the industry and its players inside and out. 在《连线》（WIRED）杂志，我们一直在尽最大努力记录AI对娱乐业产生的变革性影响，无论好坏。（如果你还没读过露丝·福勒（Ruth Fowler）最近为我们撰写的文章，讲述她从一名编剧转变为一名就业不足的大语言模型训练师的经历，我强烈推荐阅读。）但为了获得尽可能细致入微的视角，我想采访一位对这个行业及其参与者了如指掌的人。
Matt Belloni, a founding partner at Puck, has covered Hollywood for decades. He writes a scoopy newsletter (What I’m Hearing …) and hosts a scoopy podcast (The Town) that frequently focus on AI and Big Tech as both become increasingly dominant forces across entertainment. Belloni also happens to be a former lawyer, making him the ideal person to ask about the ongoing, and highly consequential, debates over AI and copyright, IP, and celebrity likeness. 马特·贝洛尼（Matt Belloni）是Puck的创始合伙人，他报道好莱坞已有数十年之久。他撰写了一份内幕通讯（《What I’m Hearing…》），并主持了一档内幕播客（《The Town》），这些内容经常聚焦于AI和大型科技公司，因为这两者正日益成为娱乐业的主导力量。贝洛尼恰好还是一位前律师，这使他成为探讨关于AI与版权、知识产权以及名人肖像权等持续且影响深远的辩论的理想人选。
Belloni was generous enough to give me an hour of his time, and we managed to cover all the bases—from whether Hollywood types side-eyed Ben Affleck after he sold an AI startup to Netflix for $587 million, to just how much control Big Tech companies now wield over the entertainment industry. You can read our conversation above or listen wherever you get your podcasts. This interview has been edited for length and clarity. 贝洛尼慷慨地给了我一个小时的时间，我们涵盖了所有要点——从本·阿弗莱克以5.87亿美元将一家AI初创公司卖给Netflix后，好莱坞圈内人是否对他侧目而视，到大型科技公司目前对娱乐业拥有多大的控制权。你可以在上方阅读我们的对话，或在你获取播客的任何平台收听。本次采访为篇幅和清晰度进行了编辑。
KATIE DRUMMOND: Matt, I have to start with the obvious, which is artificial intelligence. You’ve been on top of AI in Hollywood for a very long time, and you’ve said multiple times that, quote, “everyone is doing it,” meaning everyone [in the industry] is using AI. What exactly do you mean by that? 凯蒂·德拉蒙德（KATIE DRUMMOND）： 马特，我必须从显而易见的话题开始，那就是人工智能。你长期关注好莱坞的AI动态，并且多次说过“每个人都在用”，意思是（业内）每个人都在使用AI。你具体是什么意思？
MATTHEW BELLONI: Well, there’s two types of AI, as you know. There’s generative AI, which is content creation and things like that, and then there’s what I refer to as the corporate AI, like streamlining processes and better search results. Obviously, on the second one, everyone is using it. 马特·贝洛尼（MATTHEW BELLONI）： 嗯，如你所知，AI有两种类型。一种是生成式AI，即内容创作之类的；另一种是我所说的“企业级AI”，比如简化流程和优化搜索结果。显然，对于后者，每个人都在使用。
I’m not going to name a name, but I heard a very interesting story about a very prominent showrunner who went into the writer’s room and basically castigated her writing team for not using ChatGPT to help with the process. 我不会点名，但我听到一个非常有趣的故事：一位非常著名的剧集运作人（showrunner）走进编剧室，基本上斥责了她的编剧团队，因为他们没有使用ChatGPT来辅助工作流程。
To help with the creative process? Or the admin and bookkeeping? 是辅助创意过程？还是行政和记账？
BELLONI: The creative process. Here’s a scenario, suggest some jokes. Here’s this, this, this. It doesn’t mean they use them. You could do the same thing with Google. It’s just better, and people are using it. I know, I’ve talked to screenwriters who use it to suggest scenarios or to give a description of the inside of a building where they want a scenario to play out, or things that to me seem like part of the process. 贝洛尼： 创意过程。比如“这是一个场景，建议一些笑话”、“这是这个、那个、那个”。这并不意味着他们一定会用这些建议。你用谷歌也能做同样的事。它只是更好用，所以人们都在用。我知道，我采访过一些编剧，他们用它来建议场景，或者描述他们想要发生剧情的建筑物内部，或者在我看来属于创作过程一部分的事情。
You may not know this, but the Writers Guild is actually OK with that. As long as there is a credited writer on every script and that this process doesn’t impact jobs, they’re OK with the use of this technology. 你可能不知道，美国编剧工会（Writers Guild）实际上对此是认可的。只要每个剧本都有署名编剧，且这一过程不影响就业，他们就接受这种技术的使用。
That’s one side. Then the other side is generative and how this is making content. There it’s a little murkier, because there are a lot of studios that are purporting to create AI-generated movies, shorts, TV pilots. I’ve seen a lot of them. They’re not great. They’re better in animation, and I think this is where we’re going to see the disruption first, but you can always kinda tell, and that’s the problem when you’re trying to relate to people. 这是一方面。另一方面是生成式AI以及它如何制作内容。这部分就比较模糊了，因为有很多工作室声称要制作AI生成的电影、短片和电视试播集。我看过很多，质量并不高。在动画领域表现好一些，我认为这将是AI首先带来颠覆的地方，但你总能看出来（是AI做的），而当你试图与观众产生共鸣时，这就是个问题。
I can’t wait to see what Elon’s historically accurate version of The Odyssey looks like. 我迫不及待想看看埃隆（马斯克）那个“历史准确版”的《奥德赛》是什么样子的。
I mean, it’s obviously going to be spectacular. I’m sure he’s hard at work on it. He’s probably been staying up all night, all week. 我的意思是，它显然会很壮观。我相信他正在努力制作。他可能整个星期都在熬夜。
BELLONI: First of all, historically accurate is hilarious for a work of fiction. But it just means it’s going to be all white people. And the funny thing is, if he tries to use or to scrape the actual version of [Christopher Nolan’s] The Odyssey—I don’t know if you saw the headlines, a full version of The Odyssey leaked on X last weekend, and before Universal could send a takedown, it was viewed like a million times … 贝洛尼： 首先，对于一部虚构作品来说，“历史准确”这个说法本身就很滑稽。但这只是意味着里面全是白人。有趣的是，如果他试图使用或抓取（克里斯托弗·诺兰版）《奥德赛》的实际版本——我不知道你有没有看到新闻，上周末《奥德赛》的完整版在X（原推特）上泄露了，在环球影业发出下架通知之前，它已经被观看了大约一百万次……
I actually had not seen that. 我确实没看到那个。
BELLONI: So who knows whether Grok got its hands on the actual Odyssey to train for Elon’s fake Odyssey, but whatever. 贝洛尼： 所以谁知道Grok（马斯克的AI）是否已经拿到了真正的《奥德赛》来训练埃隆的那个山寨版《奥德赛》呢，不过无所谓了。
On the generative AI front, I think where we’re seeing the biggest innovation/disruption is in the animation world, where visually scenes can be completed and storyboards done without the use of artists. You can extrapolate things. Doesn’t mean it’s the finished product, but even Netflix, on their earnings call this past month, said that 300 shows use generative AI. 在生成式AI方面，我认为我们看到的最大创新/颠覆是在动画领域，视觉场景的完成和故事板的制作无需艺术家参与。你可以推断出一些东西。这并不意味着它是成品，但就连Netflix在上个月的财报电话会议上也表示，有300部剧集使用了生成式AI。
I saw that. And they’re talking about that relatively loudly and freely. I’m wondering where the stigma is right now. Are there members of Hollywood—actors, directors, screenwriters—who are calling out AI publicly while using it privately? How much of this is still happening behind closed doors in secretive circumstances? 我看到了。他们谈论得相当大声且自由。我想知道现在的污名化程度如何。是否有好莱坞成员——演员、导演、编剧——在公开场合抵制AI，私下里却在使用它？这种情况在幕后秘密进行的比例有多大？
BELLONI: Well, obviously I don’t know what everybody does behind closed doors, but I know what people I talk to say to me. I do know that there is still a taint on using it. 贝洛尼： 嗯，显然我不知道每个人在幕后做什么，但我知道我交谈过的人是怎么说的。我确实知道，使用它仍然带有某种污点。
A perfect example is Amazon. They did a whole media day where they brought in press and they have this whole AI generative studio that is being run by Albert Chang, one of their executives, and they announced a bunch of shows, including some animation shows, and there were real creators on these shows. 一个完美的例子是亚马逊。他们举办了一个媒体日，邀请了媒体参加，并展示了由其高管之一阿尔伯特·张（Albert Chang）运营的整个AI生成工作室。他们宣布了一系列剧集，包括一些动画节目，而且这些节目中确实有真实的创作者。
Almost immediately, the backlash that one of the creators got online was so crazy—I don’t say crazy meaning bad, I mean crazy like loud—that he stepped down. That’s a tangible impact of AI shaming, so to speak, and that is real. You know, maybe that’ll change. 几乎立刻，其中一位创作者在网上遭到的强烈抵制——我说的“疯狂”不是指坏，而是指声势浩大——导致他退出了。这就是所谓的“AI羞辱”带来的切实影响，这是真实存在的。你知道，也许未来会有所改变。