Can John Ternus find Apple’s next big thing?
Can John Ternus find Apple’s next big thing?
约翰·特努斯（John Ternus）能找到苹果的下一个大事件吗？
Bloomberg’s chief Apple correspondent Mark Gurman on Siri, Tim Cook’s legacy, and what to expect from new CEO John Ternus. 彭博社首席苹果记者马克·古尔曼（Mark Gurman）谈论 Siri、蒂姆·库克（Tim Cook）的遗产，以及对新任首席执行官约翰·特努斯的期待。
Today, I’m talking with Mark Gurman, who is the world’s best-sourced Apple reporter — both as Bloomberg’s chief Apple correspondent and the host of the upcoming podcast Power On. 今天，我采访的是马克·古尔曼，他是全球消息最灵通的苹果记者——他既是彭博社的首席苹果记者，也是即将推出的播客《Power On》的主持人。
Earlier this month, Apple hosted its annual iPhone hardware event, virtually every detail of which was reported ahead of time by Mark. But this event was special, for a number of reasons. 本月初，苹果举办了年度 iPhone 硬件发布会，几乎每一个细节都被马克提前报道了。但这次发布会因多种原因显得格外特别。
It was new Apple CEO John Ternus’ first major product launch since he took over for former CEO Tim Cook less than two weeks prior. It was also the debut of the iPhone Duo, Apple’s first foldable smartphone. The timing of those two things was not at all coincidental, as you’ll hear Mark explain. Apple takes these hardware events — and the stories they tell — extremely seriously. 这是苹果新任首席执行官约翰·特努斯在接替前任首席执行官蒂姆·库克不到两周后的首次重大产品发布会。这也是苹果首款折叠屏智能手机 iPhone Duo 的首次亮相。正如你稍后会听到马克解释的那样，这两件事的时间安排绝非巧合。苹果非常重视这些硬件发布会，以及它们所讲述的故事。
This year’s story actually says a great deal about what’s happening at Apple, how Cook managed in wholesale leadership ranks over the past year, and how all of that might change Apple’s culture. Furthermore, what all that tells about Ternus’ plan to navigate Apple from what you might call the iPhone era into the AI era. 今年的故事实际上揭示了苹果内部正在发生的事情、库克在过去一年中如何大规模调整领导层，以及这一切可能如何改变苹果的企业文化。此外，这也反映了特努斯计划如何带领苹果从所谓的“iPhone 时代”迈向“AI 时代”。
Okay: Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman on the future of Apple. Here we go. This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. 好了，接下来是彭博社的马克·古尔曼谈论苹果的未来。我们开始吧。为篇幅和清晰起见，本次采访经过了轻微编辑。
Mark Gurman, you’re the chief Apple correspondent and the managing editor of consumer technology at Bloomberg. Welcome to Decoder. 马克·古尔曼，你是彭博社的首席苹果记者兼消费技术执行编辑。欢迎来到《Decoder》。
Good to be here finally. Thanks for having me. And it’s been a while, so it’s good to catch up on all things Apple. 终于来到这里了。谢谢你的邀请。已经有一段时间没见了，很高兴能聊聊关于苹果的一切。
Yeah, I’m really excited to talk to you. Obviously, Apple just had its big event. They announced the iPhone Duo. It was John Ternus’s first event as CEO. This is a Decoder episode, so we’ve got a new CEO, and we’ve got a new org chart inside of Apple. 是的，我非常兴奋能和你交流。显然，苹果刚刚举办了盛大的发布会，他们发布了 iPhone Duo。这是约翰·特努斯担任首席执行官后的首场发布会。这是一期《Decoder》节目，我们迎来了一位新 CEO，苹果内部也有了新的组织架构图。
There’s been a lot of shuffling. You’ve been chronicling them very, very deeply over the past few years. Let’s just start with the event. I have a very basic question for you. 内部有很多变动。过去几年里，你一直在非常深入地记录这些变化。我们先从这次发布会开始吧。我有一个非常基础的问题想问你。
Sure. 当然。
Do you ever get nostalgic for a time when you didn’t know what was going to happen at the iPhone event? 你是否会怀念那种在 iPhone 发布会前不知道会发生什么的日子？
Do I ever get nostalgic? 我会怀念吗？
Do you ever wish that you, Mark Gurman, were about to be surprised? 你是否曾希望自己——马克·古尔曼——能被惊喜到？
Honestly, I never think about it that way. I’m just fixated on delivering the goods and delivering the news. And people love their Apple. People want to know everything that’s coming down to the last minute, so I’m here to provide it for them. 老实说，我从不那样想。我只是专注于提供干货和发布新闻。人们热爱苹果，他们想在最后一刻之前了解即将到来的一切，所以我在这里就是为了满足他们的需求。
The thing with me, and I don’t know if most people know this about me, but I hope people know this about me, is that I’m a huge Apple fan through and through, and I’ve always been. And I’m so lucky to be able to cover a company that I love, a company that I am obsessed with, and a company whose products I use. There are so many people who cover companies that they couldn’t care less about. That’s not me. 关于我的一点是——我不知道大多数人是否了解，但我希望他们知道——我是一个彻头彻尾的苹果粉丝，一直都是。我很幸运能报道一家我热爱的公司，一家让我着迷的公司，以及一家我使用其产品的公司。有很多人报道他们根本不在乎的公司，但我不是那样。
So I do what I do because I love Apple and I love covering Apple. I love the community around it, and I love talking about it. And it’s always fun to get a peek at the future and help keep not only myself informed, but people informed around me. 所以我做这份工作是因为我热爱苹果，也热爱报道苹果。我喜欢围绕它的社区，也喜欢谈论它。能够一窥未来，并帮助不仅是我自己，还有周围的人了解最新动态，这总是很有趣。
That actually leads me to a lot of things because I’ve known you forever. We’ve been working in and around the same spaces forever. You got your start as an Apple blogger at the Apple rumor sites. There’s a whole culture around Apple that has grown up and changed over the years, and you can trace it to different eras of hardware, to different CEOs, to different sizes of the company. This was the first event with John Ternus as CEO. Apple announced a big new product in the iPhone Duo. 这让我想到了很多事情，因为我认识你很久了。我们一直在同一个领域工作。你最初是以苹果传闻网站的博主身份起家的。围绕苹果形成了一种文化，这些年来它一直在成长和变化，你可以将其追溯到不同的硬件时代、不同的首席执行官以及公司不同的规模。这是约翰·特努斯担任首席执行官后的第一次发布会。苹果发布了一款名为 iPhone Duo 的重磅新产品。
Do you sense that the community is changing? How do you think that community has changed over the years? And do you think Ternus is going to lead to a difference in what that community feels like? 你感觉到这个社区正在发生变化吗？你认为这个社区多年来发生了怎样的变化？你认为特努斯会给这个社区的感受带来不同吗？
I have to say, this event really didn’t feel much different than a Tim Cook event. They felt pretty interchangeable. It could have been Tim up there introducing it. It could have been Ternus up there introducing it. 我必须说，这次发布会感觉和蒂姆·库克的发布会并没有太大区别。它们感觉几乎可以互换。台上介绍产品的人可以是蒂姆，也可以是特努斯。
The one thing I will say that did feel slightly different is that Ternus came out swinging with a point of view on AI. The first thing he came out with was about the intelligent personal hub. Now, here’s the big difference between Tim Cook and John Ternus in terms of their management style. You’re inside Apple, you’re an executive, you’ll come to him with an idea, you’ll come to him with a viewpoint, a decision, an opinion, and he’ll just pepper you with more questions. He won’t make a singular decision in many cases. It’s very much communal decision-making, collaborative decision-making. 我要说的一点确实感觉略有不同，那就是特努斯一上来就旗帜鲜明地表达了他对人工智能的看法。他首先提到的是“智能个人中心”。现在，这就是蒂姆·库克和约翰·特努斯在管理风格上的巨大差异。如果你在苹果内部担任高管，带着一个想法、观点、决策或意见去找库克，他会用更多的问题来反问你。在很多情况下，他不会做出单一的决定。这更多是集体决策、协作决策。
John Ternus, if you come to him and you want him to make a decision, he’ll make a decision. He’ll have an opinion. Now, you may hate his opinion; you may completely disagree with him, but he has a viewpoint. But that’s the big difference between talking to people about Ternus and Tim. 而约翰·特努斯，如果你去找他并希望他做决定，他会做出决定。他会有自己的观点。当然，你可能讨厌他的观点，或者完全不同意他，但他确实有自己的立场。这就是人们在谈论特努斯和库克时最大的区别。
Ternus comes out talking about his view on AI. I may disagree with it. A lot of people may disagree with it. They may think the OpenAI or Anthropic approach is superior, but at least he came out and had a viewpoint. 特努斯出来谈论他对人工智能的看法。我可能不同意，很多人也可能不同意。他们可能认为 OpenAI 或 Anthropic 的路径更优越，但至少他站出来表达了自己的观点。
Apple’s been at this AI game now for two years since they launched Apple Intelligence at WWDC in 2024, and it’s been a mishmash of things. They haven’t really come out with a very strong narrative and viewpoint, and they finally did. So, as I said, whether you agree with it or not, they did do that. And I thought that was a really interesting way to kick off the keynote. 自 2024 年 WWDC 发布 Apple Intelligence 以来，苹果在 AI 领域已经摸索了两年，但一直显得有些杂乱无章。他们此前并没有真正提出一个非常强有力的叙事和观点，而现在他们终于做到了。所以，正如我所说，无论你是否同意，他们确实做到了。我认为这是开启主题演讲的一种非常有趣的方式。
All right, we’re just going to get into the weeds of Apple nerds disagreeing about things. Okay, let’s do it. 好吧，我们现在要深入探讨苹果极客们在各种事情上的分歧了。好的，开始吧。
I sat through that event, and I appreciated the same thing that you saw, which is, “Oh, we’re telling a story.” John Ternus is on the stage, and the first thing he’s doing is 我全程观看了那场发布会，我也和你看到了同样的东西，那就是：“哦，我们在讲一个故事。”约翰·特努斯站在台上，他做的第一件事就是……